Constitutional lawyer and Chairman of The Patriots, Professor Ben Nwabueze, in this interview during the meeting of the eminent personalities in Lagos spoke on the need for caution on the agitations for Biafra saying the mere name of MASSOB connotes treason as there cannot be another independent state within Nigeria.
The octogenarian former Minister of education also lampooned the Buhari administration over the change mantra saying so far, there is nothing like change in the country.
Excerpts:
Reaction to current agitations for actualisation of Biafra?
With the general condition in the country, unemployment of the youths, graduate unemployment is a serious issue in this country. And that has given rise to youths unrest and protest; it’s the season of the youths; graduates sitting at home for three, five or more years after graduation without jobs; what do you expect them to do? How do you expect them to feel? This is the issue. And the second issue that has given rise to protests is the feeling of injustice. Some areas of the country feel that they are not being well treated; they are being treated as if they do not belong. Look at the recent appointment by the federal government, by our president; the way the appointments are slanted in favour of a particular section of the country. Even the initial appointments before the appointment of the ministers – all favouring one area and one particular religious grouping. In the appointment of ministers, the president is not left with much discretion, he has to appoint ministers from each state, so he cannot say I will not appoint someone from the South east or the South west or the South south; he can’t do that. He can however do that in the allocations of positions and responsibilities, i.e. how the ministers are allotted functions. Otherwise what can be the justification for appointing in respect of security, all ministers in charge of security issues and functions and officers all from the same area. The Minister of Defence from the same area, Minister of Interior, from the same area; National Security Adviser (NSA), from the same area; the earlier appointment of service chiefs, most of them from the same area. National Security is a national concern not the concern of a particular area. When you appoint the functionaries in charge of security from a particular area, you give the impression that national security is the concern of one particular region. No, it is not that of a particular region, but the entire nation. We don’t want to create a situation where in the event of a problem, the situation will be managed by one section who will now lord itself over the entire country to adopt solutions that will favour that particular section of the country. That’s very, very unacceptable and very dangerous approach. So, these are the things that we have to consider in relation to the ongoing protests.
For myself, the answer to the protest is not the actualisation of Sovereign State of Biafra, no, that’s not the answer at all. When I was Secretary General of Ohanaeze, I always tell the Igbo: I am Igbo; the Igbo are scattered all over the country, they are everywhere, you want a Sovereign State of Biafra, have you considered what will happen to all of them? Igboland is not enough to contain all the Igbo, have you considered that? That’s the truth of the matter, we are much better here in Nigeria. We are much better off in one large country as Nigeria. So, let’s try how to consolidate one Nigeria nation to reduce this element of marginalisation and discrimination.
In my beat as Secretary General of Ohanaeze, I held several meetings with MASSOB people. At some of the meetings I said to them, if you want to be taken seriously, change your name. The name, Movement for the Actualisation of Sovereign People of Biafra taints you and all your activities with treason. You are agitating for a Sovereign State of Biafra within a Sovereign State of Nigeria. That’s treasonable. If you want me as a citizen to support your cause, you have to change your name; because operating under such name, if you do anything, if you burn down any police station, and if OPC (Odua Peoples Congress) from the South west do the same thing, two different interpretations will be given. Your own action, the action of burning down a police station will be interpreted in term of your name and will be interpreted as treasonable while that same action by OPC will convey an ordinary interpretation of burning down a police station and they would be treated in terms of criminals who burnt down a police station. Yours will be different because of your name. Till today, there has been no change in the name, only recently we heard some people calling themselves the Indigenous People of Biafra (IPOB). If they dropped MASSOB completely and go by this other name, this other name is not objectionable. If they can succeed MASSOB, it may be okay. But they’ve not succeeded they still use MASSOB, so we don’t know which is which. So, my answer is that the Federal Government should deal with the protests in a more matured way rather than arresting everybody and clamping them in detention as that can accentuate the whole situation. I think they should reason with these protesters, they are young people. That’s what I tell them: ‘look, you are young people, don’t go and plunge the entire people, the Igbo people into another catastrophy which we have not bargained for. We did not bargain for that, we haven’t recovered from the last one, don’t let’s contemplate another. I’m not condemning them because as young as they are, they are reacting to some irritations which I have already mentioned- graduate, unemployment, youth restiveness, marginalisation. But Biafra is not the answer to these gnawing grievances in essence that you are actualising, you want to actualise a treasonable act. That’s my approach an I hope that these youngsters can be persuaded to follow this line. Unfortunately, Kanu has been incarcerated, but I have given instructions that as soon as he is released, he should be brought to see me so that we can talk to him. And the Federal Government should be persuaded to release him so that we can have access to him to talk some sense into him, I don’t know whether he would be more amenable than Ralph Uwazuruike. But let’s hope they will release him, it is better to release him than to keep him in prison or custody, no.
Why did it take so long for the Patriots to set an Agenda for the Buhari administration?
We were waiting for him to do what he had to do before we make a statement. Indeed, some of us wanted us to wait more before we speak.
What is the position of the Patriots on the anti-corruption war of the Buhari administration; some believe it is skewed against some individuals and not far reaching?
We said that we support the prosecution of the anti-corruption war of the government on the condition that it is done in accordance with the law of the country. It should be done across the board and not in a selective manner. If it is done in a selective manner, it will create the impression that you are witch-hunting any particular individual or group of people. That should be avoided. Besides, it is something everybody should support. Corruption is a big challenge in the country now, but not the biggest challenge. The greatest challenge facing our country today is the National question, how to coalesce the 389 ethnic nationalities in the country into one nation. That’s the greatest problem. 389 ethnic nationalities, that’s a large number. How do you get them together in one nation? We make the mistake of always talking about the Nigerian nation; we are not a nation yet, we are a state. That’s why we talk on the national question; how to coalesce 389 ethnic nationalities into one. And they may be more. The research done by Professor Echike formerly of the University of Ibadan identified 389 ethnic nationalities. That figure is contested. Some people say it is less, some say it is more. Even if we accepted this figure, 389 groups is not a joke to bring them together, all with a different outlook, different culture, different customs. But it is possible, it can be done if we have a government that is committed to doing it. With me here is Chief Solomon Asemota SAN, leader of the Ethnic Nationalities Movement and is doing his best with his Secretary, Michael Oronbator who is also Secretary of The Patriots. They are working hard, it is not a job for individuals alone, they need the government to support them. It takes a lot of money which the organisation cannot afford. The government is not taking the right attitude. They called a National Conference isolating the ethnic minorities; that it the major problem of unity in this country: Ethnic Nationality; they wear the shoes and know where it pinches; ask them and they will tell you but we are all full of pretences in this country. They say detrabilised, there is nothing like that. In the first place, we are all a member of one ethnic nationality, before being a Nigerian. If they tell you that they are making a false claim. However you say you detrabilised, you are still a child of an ethnic nationality. So, you have to involve them, because unless you involve them, without involving them, you will not find solution to the national question. And until you find solution to the question of national question, you will not a have a Nigerian nation. So, that’s the issue and that was The Patriot’s ground against the last National Conference. We made our position very clear, we said it should be a Conference of Ethnic Nationalities. We submitted a memorandum on this to former President Jonathan on this but he went ahead distributing memberships to all kinds of friends and so on with only about 11 members of ethnic nationalities. They met but never proffered workable solutions to our problems. The problems are still there. Even that which they did, the government should implement that. Even at that, that implementation must be by a referendum; the Constitution must be conformed with. The entire people of Nigeria must vote in the referendum.
In your communique, you called for a revolutionary change as a panacea to the nation’s myriads of problems. President Buhari came into the Presidency on the crest of change mantra he promised Nigerians. Now he is six months on the saddle, is this the kind of change The Patriot is demanding?
Certainly not, you can answer that question yourself. You know what a revolutionary change is. In our communiqué of 10 January, we talked about a revolutionary change. It is not by force but change in tempo and pace of government, and inbuilt with a revolutionary ardour to transform the entire polity and society of Nigeria into a new and purposeful country. That’s all we need, change in purpose, change in pace, change in tempo; is that happening? No. Nothing is happening, this country is rotten is every respect, not only people taking bribes but morally, ethically. We need an ethical revolution. When you talk about revolution, its not about carrying guns, violence, armed violence; no. We need an ethical revolution to cleanse this society. It’s the society we are talking about, not the state. This society is rotten, it needs to be revolutionised. We need to revolutionise this society, that’s what we need. To revolutionise the society, it’s not only one person talking, you have to mobilise the society. We appealed to former President Jonathan on this, we told him: ‘we are prepared to mount the rostrum with you, we are prepared to talk to the Nigerian people on the need for a revolution, an ethical revolution’. It is needed. That is the sort of change needed and can’t be achieved without an ethical and moral revolution. The people may be afraid of the word; when you mention revolution, they think in terms of armed conflict which is not necessary. If we have a president who is imbued with a revolutionary ardour, everybody will see it. We will all match behind him, without shooting. We don’t have to shoot to succeed. All we need is the right leadership that is imbued with that ardour. So, it depends on the leadership. Do we have the leadership? It’s not in sitting down in the office and talking; no; you have to mobilise the people. Social mobilsation for change. Change will not come by merely talking about change mantra alone. It’s a change that will about a change in the purpose, pace and tempo of the government. When that begins to happen, you will see it, everybody will see it. Everybody will be propelled; but that is not happening. It is not just talking about change, change. What is change? They are not mobilising; I haven’t seen the president going out trying to mobilise people for change. I want Nigeria to be saved.
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